tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post7710072692081697469..comments2023-10-24T17:15:07.560+02:00Comments on A Dance with Dragons re-read project: Daenerys IIStefan Sassehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03504751435668017553noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-31931193501111560882011-09-22T22:24:25.462+02:002011-09-22T22:24:25.462+02:00I think both Reznak (or whoever it was) and Tyrion...I think both Reznak (or whoever it was) and Tyrion's ship are BOTH red herrings for the perfumed seneschal...mainly because Dany doesn't have anything to fear from either. Quaithe already told her of the lion coming, so why would she also warn her of the lion's boat?<br /><br />It's got to be Varys...he's been embroiled in Dany's story from the very beginning, but she's never had a hint of his existence as far as I can tell. Illyrio worked closely with him but never mentioned him to her...and Varys is very capable of taking drastic actions when he feels it's necessary. He's got to be the one she needs to beware.stilehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00603670764256264675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-802027566920097322011-07-21T02:48:07.614+02:002011-07-21T02:48:07.614+02:00My point was that HER feelings were not stated.My point was that HER feelings were not stated.Raquelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17181855641076360454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-11132206870045409592011-07-19T16:11:29.886+02:002011-07-19T16:11:29.886+02:00@Raquel: Not true, in one of his chapters Barrista...@Raquel: Not true, in one of his chapters Barristan goes over lengths about the relationship of Eddard and Ashara, stating that at least Eddard loved her fiercely.Stefan Sassehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03504751435668017553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-50371208396918508062011-07-19T08:48:32.030+02:002011-07-19T08:48:32.030+02:00Quentyn is the sun's son. Look at Dorne's ...Quentyn is the sun's son. Look at Dorne's arms! Sun pierced by a spear!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-71270798065765999722011-07-19T06:25:10.385+02:002011-07-19T06:25:10.385+02:00"On Brandon: Doesn't make sense, Eddard w..."On Brandon: Doesn't make sense, Eddard was introduced as loving Ashara Dayne back then in ASOS and was urged to dance with her on behalf of Brandon."<br /><br />I must disagree and say that the story has Brandon asking Ashara to dance with the Quiet Wolf, which is Ned. It might mean he liked her, but her own feelings are never displayed. She danced with Ned, and he returned her brother's sword to her, and miscarried a child. That's all we really know about the two of them.Raquelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17181855641076360454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-61473499742515929332011-07-19T06:16:15.628+02:002011-07-19T06:16:15.628+02:00I do agree that this chapter shows Dany being a se...I do agree that this chapter shows Dany being a serious twit. Her emotions do indeed tend to cloud her judgement, and her personal prejudices about those who overthrew her father come across as willful and stubborn, and I almost had a picture of her with her fingers in her ears going "LA LA LA LA" when Barristan tries to expand her understanding. <br /><br />And yet, her own "dogs" are out of control as a direct result of her bad decision to settle in and try to be a queen of a city she never wanted.<br /><br />Blah!Raquelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17181855641076360454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-22132191400492727472011-07-14T22:13:36.463+02:002011-07-14T22:13:36.463+02:00Too far fetched for my book, sorry. I still think ...Too far fetched for my book, sorry. I still think it's Aegon, leaving too possibilities: either he simply is the dragon of the mummer, or he's false. :)Stefan Sassehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03504751435668017553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-11160541420143943792011-07-14T20:17:06.191+02:002011-07-14T20:17:06.191+02:00Sudden thought:
What if the 'mummer's dra...Sudden thought:<br /><br />What if the 'mummer's dragon' part actually refers to *Quentyn* as well? Specifically, at the end (SPOILERS), he tried to tame the dragons, saying that he had Targaryen blood, and got roasted as a result.<br /><br />Because otherwise, it's hard to find any association of Quentyn and Aegon. The other two make sense in their association, but when does Quentyn even come close to a mummer's dragon? In the end, he did turn out to be a bit of a fake dragon after all - trying to claim his right by blood, rather than ability. This would also give the possibility that Aegon is a real dragon after all, if it doesn't refer to him (though not quite sure how Dany slew the lie of Quentyn's dragon, based on the House of Undying prophecy, though you could associate the other dragons with her.)<br /><br />The obvious flaw in this is that it seems weird to have the two objects refer to the same person.Sophiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09558099683565458869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-11719109810379958142011-07-14T19:32:40.008+02:002011-07-14T19:32:40.008+02:00I had thought of that at first - that it might bri...I had thought of that at first - that it might bring the greyscale plague to Meereen, or something of that sort. But I don't think it turned out to be something wary of, in the end.Sophiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09558099683565458869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-26283800600035772162011-07-14T17:36:27.522+02:002011-07-14T17:36:27.522+02:00Hey, nice, hadn't thought of that yet. Putting...Hey, nice, hadn't thought of that yet. Putting it in.Stefan Sassehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03504751435668017553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-11057437002506040442011-07-14T01:27:19.169+02:002011-07-14T01:27:19.169+02:00Isn't the perfumed senschal the ship Tyrion wa...Isn't the perfumed senschal the ship Tyrion was on? It has a name in some other language, and someone translates it as "fragrant steward." There's no way that's a coincidence. No way.Sansterrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16314425511433561445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-32139273092351302222011-07-13T22:30:35.256+02:002011-07-13T22:30:35.256+02:00Hm, I wouldn't dwell in speculation from earli...Hm, I wouldn't dwell in speculation from earlier drafts. We have to work with the text at hand. <br /><br />On Brandon: Doesn't make sense, Eddard was introduced as loving Ashara Dayne back then in ASOS and was urged to dance with her on behalf of Brandon. <br /><br />Regarding Marwyn, yeah, that's strange, but I also seem no sense in the crackpot theory. <br />RStefan Sassehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03504751435668017553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-23176852721422571292011-07-13T22:16:32.515+02:002011-07-13T22:16:32.515+02:00I also had a thought pop up in my head while readi...I also had a thought pop up in my head while reading this. It really looks like Quaithe is using a glass candle to speak to Dany from afar. But if that's true, then why doesn't anyone else do so as well? Dany has plenty of seekers, some of whom are known to possess such arts. In particular, Marwyn still hasn't shown up, and we know he has glass candles burning (there's a crackpot theory he's disguised as Morroqo; I just don't see the point for doing so. It would be a hard illusion - as we know from Melisandre - to change his entire skin color.) Or why haven't the red priests contacted her at all? What's special about Quaithe?Sophiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09558099683565458869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-12531950891396386312011-07-13T22:04:04.362+02:002011-07-13T22:04:04.362+02:00What I found most interesting was that in the vers...What I found most interesting was that in the version that GRRM read at a signing ages ago (according to the westeros forums), it was "Crow and kraken", which I took to be Euron and Victarion. Apparently, Euron got replaced by the red priest? Or the red priest was supposed to be a crow?<br /><br />Which does leave me wondering throughout the book what Euron is up to (I had expected Quentyn to die before even reading the book, but thought that Euron would follow Victarion and steal Dany away as a salt wife - her corpse mount to dread.)<br /><br />Also, I have a bit of a theory that *Brandon* Stark was the one who fathered the miscarriage on Ashara Dayne. Barristan doesn't say that Eddard did it, just "Stark".<br /><br />It's a bit of a crackpot theory, perhaps. My reasoning was that, firstly, Barristan has too good of an impression of Ned if he had done that. And secondly, we are told that Brandon was the type of person who took what he wanted as his due (by Lady Dustin... though she was biased.)Sophiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09558099683565458869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-17944813139869311042011-07-07T02:39:31.729+02:002011-07-07T02:39:31.729+02:00Err, slight correction, Wylla stayed in Starfall f...Err, slight correction, Wylla stayed in Starfall for many years after Jon was born, that's how she ended up wet-nursing for Edric. She didn't go North with Eddard.KrimzonStrikerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09399041947125766551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-25779751444352099712011-07-06T17:03:10.859+02:002011-07-06T17:03:10.859+02:00@Krimzon: More likely Barristen is just playing of...@Krimzon: More likely Barristen is just playing off the rumors between Ashara and Ned, but that's just me thinking this is a red herring Martin wants to keep throwing in about Jon's origins. <br /><br />Well, it rules out Ned as his father and Ashara as his mother. The timing is all wrong. If Ned went to Starfall after the Tower of Joy and Lyanna's death, why would Ashara commit suicide? It doesn't make sense. Jon was already born at that point; according to Edric Dayne, Willa the wetnurse was at Starfall and went north to Winterfell with Ned to care for Jon. So Ashara can't be Jon's mother if what Barristan says is true. <br /><br />Lyanna is Jon's mother. This just erases any doubt on that score.Kristinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16787365829018329681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-22651743732751567502011-07-06T07:38:17.291+02:002011-07-06T07:38:17.291+02:00@TE: Varys banked on the both meeting and marrying...@TE: Varys banked on the both meeting and marrying soon. That went out of the window.<br />@Krimzon: I agree. <br />@JMC: Possible.Stefan Sassehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03504751435668017553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-69774264477694016932011-07-06T06:43:02.039+02:002011-07-06T06:43:02.039+02:00Stefan: Mmm, no, but Marwyn sails to Meereen in a ...Stefan: Mmm, no, but Marwyn sails to Meereen in a ship of the Summer Islands. And if he knows the arts of a Faceless Man...JMChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05036060714261564716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-41638895839219064992011-07-06T05:19:21.234+02:002011-07-06T05:19:21.234+02:00I don't think Barristen's suspicions are e...I don't think Barristen's suspicions are enough to confirm the bit about Jon yet, especially if he somehow thinks she miscarried. Part of me thinks that IF Edd fathered a child with Ashara, the timing would have to be somewhere in the beginning of the Rebellion at least, which seems rather unlikely given his known travel destinations at the time. More likely Barristen is just playing off the rumors between Ashara and Ned, but that's just me thinking this is a red herring Martin wants to keep throwing in about Jon's origins.KrimzonStrikerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09399041947125766551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-40051784777203748102011-07-06T02:48:36.558+02:002011-07-06T02:48:36.558+02:00In AGOT, Illyrio says to Varys: “Nonetheless, we m...In AGOT, Illyrio says to Varys: “Nonetheless, we must have time. The princess is with child. The khal will not bestir himself until his son is born. You know how they are, these savages.”<br /><br />What game are they playing? At this point, they're pretty clearly banking on Dany invading Westeros with a khalasar. The war is about to start and they're not ready. They must've wanted *both* her and Aegon involved. Varys evidently wants to restore the Targaryens, not merely install his puppet on the Iron Throne.<br /><br />Now, in ADWD, apparently Varys thinks Aegon can do it alone. But does that make him an enemy or a threat to Dany? I don't think so, not at all. She may not rule, but if Aegon is the real deal, she has no right to rule.TEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14038979881966044665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-44782045727267497232011-07-06T01:03:18.861+02:002011-07-06T01:03:18.861+02:00Cool...keep up the good work Stefan. it'll pro...Cool...keep up the good work Stefan. it'll probably be days before I get my hands on my copy of dance. Depending on detailed summaries like these to pass my time!Maheshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02746806027183958201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-61179635836582063322011-07-06T00:51:36.978+02:002011-07-06T00:51:36.978+02:00Marwyn wasn't a summer islander, was he? Varys...Marwyn wasn't a summer islander, was he? Varys as the perfumed seneschal makes a lot of sense, I'm adding it to the article, thanks! - I don't see Dawn being Lightbringer, however.Stefan Sassehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03504751435668017553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-89499681337566120972011-07-06T00:25:09.189+02:002011-07-06T00:25:09.189+02:00Also anyone else think that the red mage that vict...Also anyone else think that the red mage that victorian fished out is actually Marwyn...I know he is a maestar but he was adept at other arts as well. Bloodmagic, glass candles to communicate over long distances etc. Also clearly the guy isn't going to show up as himself.Maheshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02746806027183958201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9200860591450872337.post-34406992964222075872011-07-06T00:21:51.261+02:002011-07-06T00:21:51.261+02:00Interesting titbits in this chapter. the bit about...Interesting titbits in this chapter. the bit about Ashara confirms the Ned+Ashara=jon theory as far as I'm concerned. I doesn't make sense for her to wait so long to commit suicide otherwise. It can be only reason why Edric Dayne knows about Jon. And now that we have hints Jon is being set up as Azor Azai, dawn is most likely to be lightbringer.<br /><br />Apart from that i think the perfumed seneschel she needs to be wary of is Varys. clearly he is pro-Aegon (or whoever he is)and NOT on thee side of Dany.Maheshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02746806027183958201noreply@blogger.com